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Will SVN re-install keep my existing repositories?

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kahanu

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 12

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Will SVN re-install keep my existing repositories?

I have a problem where I can't add any new repositories to my existing Collab SVN installation. It was installed a few years ago. Can I install the latest version of Collab SVN and use the existing repositories created by the previous SVN version with the new version? Essentially at the moment, I cannot create and use any new repositories I create with my existing installation, so I was hoping re-installing SVN with the latest version would solve the problem. Any ideas? Thanks. Specs: SVN Collabnet server : 1.4.6.28521 Windows Server 2003 SP1 TortoiseSVN : 1.5.7 Apache Server: 2.0.58.200

andyl

Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 4873

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Will SVN re-install keep my existing repositories?

kahanu wrote:

I have a problem where I can't add any new repositories to my existing Collab SVN installation. It was installed a few years ago.

Essentially at the moment, I cannot create and use any new repositories I create with my existing installation, so I was hoping re-installing SVN with the latest version would solve the problem.

Can't create repositories, or can add but can't access newly-created repositories? There's a difference.

Your Subversion repository is an important thing. You shouldn't be making decisions like this based upon "I hope" - it needs to be "I know". You've got someplace you can test this, and backups of your repository, right?

kahanu wrote:

Can I install the latest version of Collab SVN and use the existing repositories created by the previous SVN version with the new version?

The installer will not delete any repositories but that does not excuse you from making a backup beforehand to be certain. This in addition to the regular backups you're already performing.

kahanu wrote:

SVN Collabnet server : 1.4.6.28521
Windows Server 2003 SP1
TortoiseSVN : 1.5.7
Apache Server: 2.0.58.200

That's your problem right there. You're creating repositories on your server using TortoiseSVN. You need to keep TSVN at the same version as the Collabnet installation if you're going to use both on the same working copy or, if you're working on the server, repositories.

There's no need for TSVN on your Subversion server. Keep things simple, only install CollabNet Server, it's got everything you need.

kahanu

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 12

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject:

Andyl,

Thanks for your response.

Quote:

Can't create repositories, or can add but can't access newly-created repositories? There's a difference.

I can't access newly created repositories. I can create a new repository but I cannot import anything into them. So SVN is useless, for adding new repositories.

Quote:

Your Subversion repository is an important thing. You shouldn't be making decisions like this based upon "I hope" - it needs to be "I know". You've got someplace you can test this, and backups of your repository, right?

The only reason I say "I hope..." is because I don't know the answer.

Quote:

I've never heard anywhere that I shouldn't be upgrading TSVN when it asks, or where I should be upgrading SVN at the same time. I wish the TSVN popup would say something like, "Don't forget to upgrade your SVN installation." Confused

If you are saying I should keep them at the same version, then does that mean I can install a newer version of SubVersion that will read the existing repositories?

Quote:

There's no need for TSVN on your Subversion server. Keep things simple, only install CollabNet Server, it's got everything you need.

I added TSVN on the development server because I also debug my ASP.NET applications there in case there is a problem that might be server related. But I build the apps primarily on a different machine using TSVN.

I actually tried importing into a newly created repository using the command-line and it gave me the same error message.

So bottom line, can I solve my problem by installing the latest version of CollabNet SVN on this server? (And make sure I have the same version of TSVN on the other machine) And this won't destroy my repositories?

Re: TSVN on the server... is this not preferred, or will this actually make the application not work? I'd like to be able to use TSVN on the server. It's so much easier than the command-line (since I don't know all the commands off the top of my head)

Thanks for the response.

andyl

Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 4873

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject:

kahanu wrote:

Quote:

Can't create repositories, or can add but can't access newly-created repositories? There's a difference.

I can't access newly created repositories. I can create a new repository but I cannot import anything into them. So SVN is useless, for adding new repositories.

Because you're doing it wrong.

kahanu wrote:

Quote:

Because most people don't install TSVN on their servers - it's a client, not a server. If you're running a server, it's assumed that you've read the relevant documentation and you know how to handle your upgrades. It's not that complicated if you don't make it complicated.

Quote:

If you are saying I should keep them at the same version, then does that mean I can install a newer version of SubVersion that will read the existing repositories?

If you have multiple Subversion "products" on one computer, it's advised that you either keep them all in sync, or never touch data created by one with another.

Quote:

There's no need for TSVN on your Subversion server. Keep things simple, only install CollabNet Server, it's got everything you need.

Why is your "development" server also hosting your Subversion repository? By definition, development servers are not necessarily stable - stability is a critical attribute for your repository.

Quote:

So bottom line, can I solve my problem by installing the latest version of CollabNet SVN on this server? (And make sure I have the same version of TSVN on the other machine) And this won't destroy my repositories?

It may solve your problem, but it will depend upon how you perform the upgrade AND how you got yourself into this situation in the first place.

What is this "other machine"? You implied that this was all happening on one server. Subversion is compatible across versions over the network as long as you're using Apache or svnserve to serve the repository, but if you're creating a repository on computer A via a UNC path mapped from computer B using TSVN, you're just causing trouble.

The upgrade isn't supposed to destroy your repositories, but don't take that on blind faith - assume that it will, make sure your backups work, and make an extra backup before you do this!

Quote:

Re: TSVN on the server... is this not preferred, or will this actually make the application not work? I'd like to be able to use TSVN on the server. It's so much easier than the command-line (since I don't know all the commands off the top of my head)

There are very few svn commands you need to know, and there's built-in help for all of them. Mixing clients on a server may lead to confusion as you've seen here - just avoid it by keeping what's installed on your server to a minimum.

kahanu

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 12

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject:

I really appreciate your help on this. I'm just an ASP.NET developer and I heard a few years ago that there was a free alternative to Visual Source Safe. It took me a little to get my head around how it works compared to VSS.

Quote:

Because you're doing it wrong.

I read the documentation several times when I first started working with it. As I mentioned, the concepts of how SVN works is vastly different to what I was used to. When I finally realized what the documentation was saying and how it works, I was really excited, because it enabled me to work on different machines and grab the latest version (if I needed).

I don't really think I'm doing it completely wrong since I've been able to use it for a few years without real problems. I do admit that I don't know all the nuances and capabilities that it has, but that's mostly because I don't really need them, most of the time. I just needed to commit a version, then commit a new version, and so on.

Quote:

Are you saying that TSVN on the server is the reason this is all happening? Will it fix itself if I uninstall it?

Again, the reason I have it installed is so I can checkout a repository on the server in the case the application throws an error I can't duplicate on my Windows Vista Ultimate development machine. This helps me figure out what's causing the error on the server. And no, logging doesn't always answer that question. Smile

Quote:

If you have multiple Subversion "products" on one computer, it's advised that you either keep them all in sync, or never touch data created by one with another.

Two things, 1) I thought that TSVN was a third-party application not created by the SubVersion folks, 2) I never knew that I had to do this.

Quote:

Why is your "development" server also hosting your Subversion repository? By definition, development servers are not necessarily stable - stability is a critical attribute for your repository.

It's because I'm a single developer and I don't have the finances to have a separate SVN box. I also didn't know that I needed to do that.

Quote:

Quote:

So bottom line, can I solve my problem by installing the latest version of CollabNet SVN on this server? (And make sure I have the same version of TSVN on the other machine) And this won't destroy my repositories?
It may solve your problem, but it will depend upon how you perform the upgrade AND how you got yourself into this situation in the first place.

I didn't realize I was getting myself into any situation. Sad

I just upgrade TSVN when it said there was a new version.

Quote:

it will depend upon how you perform the upgrade...

I'm not sure what you mean. Wouldn't I just be downloading the latest SVN MSI or EXE and install it?

Quote:

What is this "other machine"? You implied that this was all happening on one server. Subversion is compatible across versions over the network as long as you're using Apache or svnserve to serve the repository, but if you're creating a repository on computer A via a UNC path mapped from computer B using TSVN, you're just causing trouble.

The "other machine" is a Windows Vista Ultimate machine on my office network. And I've created a DNS record so I can use an HTTP protocol for getting to the repositories from any machine, like this: http://local.mylocalserver.com:8081/svn/myrepository/trunk

Quote:

The upgrade isn't supposed to destroy your repositories, but don't take that on blind faith - assume that it will, make sure your backups work, and make an extra backup before you do this!

I can back everything up on my network drive.

What do you think is the best course of action for me to get back up and running?

Can I:

1) backup all my repositories
2) uninstall TSVN on the server
3) download and install the latest version of CollabNet SVN

Will this solve my problems or do I still need to do something more?

Again, I appreciate your help on this. I work for myself so I don't have anyone who can teach me how to use SVN. So I have to just go on what I can get from the documentation on my own.

andyl

Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 4873

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject:

Subversion is "a free alternative to Visual Source Safe" in the way that a sports car is an alternative to a horse & buggy. On the surface, they do a similar job, but they're very different systems and depending upon your requirements, they aren't always interchangeable.

kahanu wrote:

Quote:

Are you saying that TSVN on the server is the reason this is all happening? Will it fix itself if I uninstall it?

No, uninstalling won't fix your repositories that you can't access. The reason you're having trouble is because you installed a version of TSVN that does not match the CollabNet Server version. If you hadn't installed TSVN, you wouldn't be having this problem - or if you'd installed a matching version of TSVN, you wouldn't be having this problem.

kahanu wrote:

Again, the reason I have it installed is so I can checkout a repository on the server in the case the application throws an error I can't duplicate on my Windows Vista Ultimate development machine.

You don't need TSVN for this. You can use the command-line client, which is installed by CollabNet Server. The SVN command-line client is pretty easy to use.

kahanu wrote:

Quote:

If you have multiple Subversion "products" on one computer, it's advised that you either keep them all in sync, or never touch data created by one with another.

Two things, 1) I thought that TSVN was a third-party application not created by the SubVersion folks, 2) I never knew that I had to do this.

1)It is, but it's built on the Subversion libraries.
2) It's documented in most of the release notes & documentation.

kahanu wrote:

Quote:

Why is your "development" server also hosting your Subversion repository? By definition, development servers are not necessarily stable - stability is a critical attribute for your repository.

It's because I'm a single developer and I don't have the finances to have a separate SVN box. I also didn't know that I needed to do that.

Do you need to keep them separate? No. Is it generally advisable to do so? Absolutely.

kahanu wrote:

Quote:

I didn't realize I was getting myself into any situation. Sad

I just upgrade TSVN when it said there was a new version.

Blinly upgrading without reading release notes and understanding the ramifications of doing it is how you get yourself into a situation without realizing it.

kahanu wrote:

Quote:

it will depend upon how you perform the upgrade...

I'm not sure what you mean. Wouldn't I just be downloading the latest SVN MSI or EXE and install it?

Yes, that will probably be it, but there's always a chance for odd things to happen. You've got backups, right?

kahanu wrote:

Quote:

The upgrade isn't supposed to destroy your repositories, but don't take that on blind faith - assume that it will, make sure your backups work, and make an extra backup before you do this!

I can back everything up on my network drive.

You really ought to finish reading the manual, especially the section on how to perform a proper backup.

kahanu wrote:

What do you think is the best course of action for me to get back up and running?

Can I:

1) backup all my repositories
2) uninstall TSVN on the server
3) download and install the latest version of CollabNet SVN

Will this solve my problems or do I still need to do something more?

Yes, you can do that (removing TSVN isn't required at this point) BUT it's not a guarantee that all of your problems will be "solved" because I don't have a complete picture of your environment.

kahanu wrote:

I work for myself so I don't have anyone who can teach me how to use SVN. So I have to just go on what I can get from the documentation on my own.

I don't work for myself, but I didn't have anyone to sit next to me and hold my hand. I learned it all from the documentation that's freely available online. There's a lot of information out there.

kahanu

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 12

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I completely agree with you!

Quote:

You don't need TSVN for this. You can use the command-line client, which is installed by CollabNet Server. The SVN command-line client is pretty easy to use.

I will uninstall TSVN and start learning the command-line commands.

Quote:

Blinly upgrading without reading release notes and understanding the ramifications of doing it is how you get yourself into a situation without realizing it.

I don't know if this happens with you, but when I encounter a new technology, it can take a little while before I really understand how it works and what it's concepts are. I have read all the documentation on SubVersion, but honestly, there are some sections that go right over my head, no matter how many times I re-read them.

Quote:

Yes, that will probably be it, but there's always a chance for odd things to happen. You've got backups, right?

Yes I have backups.

Quote:

You really ought to finish reading the manual, especially the section on how to perform a proper backup.

I'll do that.

Quote:

I don't work for myself, but I didn't have anyone to sit next to me and hold my hand. I learned it all from the documentation that's freely available online. There's a lot of information out there.

There are people like you who have a better understanding of how things work. It takes me a little longer, especially after I've been working with and learned a technology that operates a certain way, it's hard to wrap my head around a concept that there is a different way of doing things.

andyl, thanks again for your help and I think I know what to do.

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